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The WooCommerce Marketplace with Adepeju Oduye

Do the Woo - WooCommerce Podcast, Community and News
The WooCommerce Marketplace with Adepeju Oduye
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In this episode we welcome Adepeju Oduye, the Business Development Lead for WooCommerce Marketplace. We learn about her amazingly diverse background and she shares where the marketplace has been (and where it is going). If you’re a product builder for WooCommerce, this is a must-listen to show. Not only does Adepeju share exciting new things coming to the marketplace, but she also has some great advice for Woo builders in general.

To top this off, a guest co-host joins us. Anna Maria Radu is an avid volunteer in the WooCommerce community and runs Digitales, a digital agency.

The conversation is fun, lively and packed with insights from around the marketplace. You won’t want to miss it.

A Chat with Adepeju

In episode 107, Anna and I talk with Adepeju about:

  • Her diverse path leading to WordPress and WooCommerce
  • Moving to remote working at Automattic during a pandemic and adapting to a new work culture
  • Her biggest win since she joining WooCommerce eight months ago
  • Where the marketplace has been and where it is headed
  • How they get contribution feedback from WooCommerce developers
  • What role content plays in helping to market WooCommerce products
  • The biggest piece of advice for those looking to create products to sell on the Marketplace

Connect with Adepeju


Thanks to our Pod Friends

wayflyer

Bob: Hey everyone, BobWP here, and we are back with Do the Woo episode 107. I want to find some real meaning behind the number 107 because this is going to be a really, really fun podcast. Because we're doing something a little bit different. My wonderful co-host Mendel, as you all know and love him, he was unable to make this. And so we did some wrangling and looking around and thought, "Why don't we bring in a guest co-host?" And this is where it gets fun because we just never know what direction this is going to be.

So we have a guest co-host and we have a guest, and then you have good old Bob, which is always here. So, it's exciting to have two brand new voices. I'm going to introduce my guest co-host, have you tell her a little bit about herself, Anna Maria Radu. This is exciting for me because I always love getting new voices on here. Wow. Welcome to the show.

Anna: Hello, Bob. Hello, Adepeju. Hello everyone who's listening to us. My name is Anna Maria Radu. I'm currently based in Timișoara, Romania. I am a communication and PR specialist at heart. I'm part of the WooCommerce community team. Here I lead the community support volunteering program. I'm also involved in multiple initiatives in the local startup community in Romania. And I also run a small digital agency called Digitales, and I'm more than happy to meet you all.

Bob: Wow, this is cool. This is fun. This is what I live to do.

Before I get into introducing our guests, let me just tell you we have, of course our community sponsor. I want to thank PayPal. They have some new stuff going on and new PayPal checkout. So you're going to have to check that out. It pretty much streamlines everything you need with PayPal. And you'll be hearing more about that in the middle of this show. The more details on it and where you can go and find out about that. And also we do have some new sponsors coming up.

And these are what I call my Pod Friends. And these are people we're going to be giving shout outs to, 12 companies that have joined in to help build this community versus 10up. They have this very cool Elastic Press. It's a lightning fast search with support for faceting on autocomplete that gives your customers experience they should expect. So when people are searching on your store, yeah, they need something quick.

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Also our other new friend is Wayflyer. They're the only trusted funding partner on the WooCommerce marketplace right now. And if you go to their site, WooCommerce marketplace, you'll see them featured in the, Grow your Business collection. They help WooCommerce DTC merchants improve their cashflow to accelerate growth through their revenue-based financing.

So it's a pretty intriguing thing. You should check it out. You sign up is free. It just takes a few minutes and you can go directly to their site at wayflyer.com.

So that is it. I'm ready to roll here. And I am going to introduce our guests. I'm excited. I've been wanting to get somebody in speaking of the marketplace. It's a fascinating topic and I'm sure all you builders are out there are anxious to hear more about the marketplace. And I have Adepeju, and I'm going to say her last name. I got the first name. Nailed it. I'm so proud of myself.

Adepeju: Nailed it.

Bob: And her last name is Oduye.

Adepeju: Oduye, you're close.

Bob: Oduye, see I wasn't going to mess up one or the other, but I'm going to let her introduce herself because she knows how to Do the Woo, which is what we always ask everyone. So how do you Do the Woo?

Adepeju: First of all, let me just say, I love the phrase, Do the Woo. It sounds like it should be a dance. And my gut response is to say I Do the Woo very well. That's just what I want to respond just instinctively. But to get back to the question at hand, I am the business development lead for the WooCommerce marketplace, and this means two things at a very high level. Number one, I manage third-party products and onboarding into the marketplace. And I also manage relationships with our third-party developers and partners.

Bob: Cool.

Adepeju: So that is how I Do the Woo.

Bob: Yeah. And all of you I'm sure are more than familiar with the part marketplace. Before we get in, there's a lot of great questions. I'm sure both Anna and I will have for you, but what was your journey? Did you get into WordPress first? How did you get into WooCommerce? Was it just all dropped in your lap? What is your journey? A little bit of your background up to that?

Adepeju: Yeah, I'm happy to share and it's very much, I will say just, at the top it was from probably competitor, where we were always positioning ourselves against WordPress first and foremost that got me into WordPress as an WooCommerce radar. But first and foremost, I'll start at the top. I've always been at the intersection of tech, media and monetization. And I've always been in a position where I've had to market sell or be an advocate.

So I've always been attracted to good product. And I actually started my career on the media side at the New York Times, on the online side when digital was fairly new and no one knew what they were doing. And it was a fantastic time because we were experimenting and figuring out models that became widely adopted and are still in place today. So that's very exciting. And I was in a position to work closely with product teams and create programs that we then sold to fortune 500 advertisers.

I next joined AOL, which is now Verizon Media, for those who are familiar with the constant acquisitions that have been happening in the media space over the last few years. And I went there because AOL at the time, they had... and they still do have a thriving ad tech business. But they had just acquired premium brands like media brands, like Huffington Post, TechCrunch, Engadget. So that idea of being at a company that had tech, and they were basically powering these well-known brands, advertising through these well-known brands that was compelling to me, it basically took my advertising and ad tech knowledge to the next level.

And I was similarly there in a sales strategy role. And after that, I made the switch to the startup world and I spent the next five years at a startup called a RebelMouse. And RebelMouse for those who don't know is a proprietary CMS that was founded by the former CTO of the Huffington Post. And it caters to publishers and brands that want to become publisher. So there, I had roles that spin product marketing, partnerships strategy. It's the great thing about being at a startup.

And I managed to launch one of our most prominent integrations with Facebook and Instant Articles. I established partnerships with ad-ops companies and I built and managed our rev share program. So as I was saying before, we were always being positioned against WordPress, and many of our customers came from WordPress because that was the big giant. So we were just trying to get publishers away from using WordPress using RebelMouse. And so when it came time to think of my next step, I gravitated towards WooCommerce because it was an opportunity to go deep into eCommerce, which was new for me, but also exciting, especially given the growth during the last year.

And I started at Woo in September. And the market share was there. I loved the idea of relying on a large WordPress developer community, but they're still real ways and real opportunities for WooCommerce to continue to grow. And that's particular in the marketplace. And so I'm excited to help build and shape them.

Anna: I have a very first question for you.

Adepeju: Yes.

Anna: You switched jobs basically in the middle of the pandemic. You most definitely had to do it remotely, and it was your first day on the job to get to the automatic WooCommerce team. How did that feel to you?

Adepeju: Funny enough, RebelMouse for the last, probably two and a half, three years that I was there, we were 100% remote distributed company. So the first two years at RebelMouse office down in a very trendy area, part of Manhattan Soho. And at the time our CEO was basically like, we don't want to do an office anymore and obviously help with costs, and it helped us also just like become a profitable company, but it aligned with our culture to become distributed. Because the majority of our team was located outside of the US, so it didn't make sense to have like a headquarters in New York when the majority of our team were not, were basically all over in like Eastern Europe, Asia, South America.

So, I was used to working at a distributed company, but that said, it's different when you're at a company and they shift their budget and then you go... but then I came to WooCommerce Automattic and it's like part of their DNA. So they definitely or I should say, we definitely have the systems in place, that have been in place to really take a distributed work to the next level. And I think that's the difference. I think even after three years at RebelMouse, we were still trying to figure out.

We were a small team, but we're still trying to figure out like what system work best. But it was very clear Automattic that they had like Slack, they got Slack down, they have what they call P2s, like blogging, everything in place to make sure that there's enough cross-communication happening. Teams are working together. Information is being shared. It doesn't feel hacked together, trying to do all the work. So that's what I appreciated for sure. Like, it was a very seamless process.

Anna: From an operational point of view, it works really well. But how about the company culture? Is it easy or is it hard to get accustomed to the new ways of doing things? Because it's very different thing I think.

Adepeju: It's definitely, I will say because it's a larger team that's doing, it has like this distributed culture, you find that it is, you really don't know, or your colleagues or you have to connect with can be from anywhere, like any time soon. So you just have to be more aware, for example, like our lead developer he's based in South Africa, I have people who are like six, seven, eight times zones ahead, and I always have to manage my Workday to make sure that I'm maximizing and asking what I need from them as early as possible, and manage my day accordingly.

And it's almost like you're forced to organize yourself accordingly because, we definitely rely on each other. And I definitely rely on my teammates to launch products and to work through issues. And I have to make sure that I'm maximizing my day and getting what I need. So it definitely forced me to organize more, to make sure that I am cognizant of other people's time where they are, I'm not pinging them at like 3:00 AM and I'm giving set times and deliverables for when I need stuff and why.

Anna: I understand that you had to also exercise your empathy muscle a little bit.

Adepeju: Yeah. You just have to be more aware, definitely empathize and just understand that everybody's busy. And I think even though we are, especially WooCommerce, even though we are a relatively large team when you compare it to a startup, we're actually pretty small, and pretty much everyone has multiple things that they're managing at once. Which is great. I love that kind of environment, but it's also like, you have to be aware of other people's time. And you have to make sure that what you're working on makes sense.

Not only for yourself, but for the company overall, so that actually makes it easier to work through the day and to prioritize projects because if it doesn't make sense, if it's not tied to something that's relevant, you'll know very quickly, whether or not you're working on something valuable. Yeah.

Anna: I have a hard one for you right now. I hope you're ready. Are you ready?

Adepeju: I'm ready. Bring it.

Anna: Okay. So in the eight months, since you joined WooCommerce, what would you say that was your biggest win so far?

Adepeju: Biggest win. I would say from like a goal perspective, I do like that I have been able to continue to grow the number of marketplace products that we've had. So help to crush our goals for 2020. We're seeing in 2021, so far, we're seeing probably close to 20% more launches, more monthly launches than what we were seeing last year. But that being said, there are still goals, lofty goals that I'd have to crush, but I am proud of the fact that we're continuing to see a lot of demand and get a lot of inbound requests to join the marketplace.

And I do enjoy the fact that, I'm able to continue to launch an onboard at a rapid pace, good products, good developers get them selling in the marketplace. So overall I'm glad that there are still quality products that we're able to launch in the marketplace at a rapid pace. There's still a lot of work to be done, but yes.

Anna: Awesome. So it wasn't that hard to identify your biggest win, but maybe could you dig a little deeper into where the community, where the marketplace has been before you joined WooCommerce and where it's heading?

Adepeju: Yeah, absolutely great question. So for those who don't know the marketplace had been a very closed marketplace for years, since like probably for the first, what is it? Seven, eight years since it launched maybe 2010, 2011. Very close, probably 90% of the inbound requests to join the marketplace were denied. The idea was to really focus on, okay, let's get just a small handful of developers, third-party developers and partners in, and let's just focus on core extensions that we think would be helpful.

So, it was very, very closed marketplace. And in the last, probably 12 months, 18 months, the goal has been to open it up because we realized that merchants... as eCommerce continues to grow, merchants are going to look to who they consider a thought leader like WooCommerce and come to our site, come to us figuratively, but also come visit our site and our marketplace for ideas on what kind of products they need.

Adepeju: So we were doing we were, we would be able to serve our merchants better by offering more optionality. So that is not only in terms of the number of products, but the variety of products and a variety of vendors, because again, the whole idea of WordPress and WooCommerce is to, one of the big value proposition propositions is to give developers the opportunity to customize their environments, how they need to. So we just want to be able to facilitate that.

So, that's where we are now. And that's why it's so important that I'm continuing to facilitate this growth in the marketplace, by bringing in more third-party products. And it's so much fun to work with more and more third-party developers, and to talk to their products and talk about why they built it and walk them through like their first sales in the marketplace. That's really exciting for me.

And I think if you will allow me, I think there's so many opportunities where we're going in 2021. So I look at it from, when we look at our product and our roadmap for the marketplace, it's definitely on the one hand going to continue to optimize the user experience, the merchant user experience. So, putting in that increased layer of personalization. So we're surfacing the right products, at the right time, to the right user when they come visit our site based on previous search data, previous experience in the marketplace. But then it's also making sure we're starting this localization project, where we're translating pages whether it's our marketing pages, but also our product pages into key languages.

We're starting with Spanish and French. We think that's going to be great again, in terms of surfacing the right type of content to the right user. We think that that makes sense given just like the globalization of eCommerce, and just in general like we're more global society. And then when we look at things like rating and reviews, making easier for people to provide ratings and reviews, because that's going to be important to provide that trust factor. So it's again, the community that's basically driving the popularity of products versus like WooCommerce saying, "Choose X, Y, and Z."

It's really the community pushing it through. So making it easier to do ratings and reviews, or if you just want to do ratings, just do ratings and you don't have to put a review if you want to give it an anonymously. So all of that is the work that's being done. But the second part of it is optimizing the vendor experience. So that includes, creating an even better vendor dashboard, with more analytics, giving them an opportunity to communicate more with their customers, the merchants. Giving them opportunities to submit additional products for review.

So, that's going to be done. But also things like SaaS billing API. So one of the keys to growing the marketplace is to introduce different models. So we have the extension model, of course, but we want to be able to feature SAS products as well and vendors who are selling SAS products. And so we are introducing, we ran a test for 2020, and it's continued to Q1 of this year. But by the end of Q2, we should have live SAS billing API, which will allow us to support the billing of SAS products, monthly billing and allow us to pay out our vendors on a monthly basis.

Anna: What can you tell us about the ways in which you may be asked for feedback or asked for the contribution of the WooCommerce developers in the community? How do you know what they want so that you can make decisions maybe also based on their requests?

Adepeju: As you know, the community is very vocal.

Bob: That's an understatement.

Adepeju: If you're looking for feedback, it is not hard to look for. One of the ways that we look for feedback is through the community Slack channel. Of course, we have an ideas board. But also we get a lot of feedback from our current vendors too. Those who have been in the marketplace for a long time. Like personally for myself, when I came in, it was important that I had just strategic check-ins with some of our largest and long time VPD partners and third-party developer partners.

So it was important me for set up those one-on-ones and just come at it from a perspective like, "Hey, I know you've been selling here a long time. I know you've seen some success. I know that you are invested in this environment, tell me what's working for you, what's not. What would you like to see more of?" So it was important for me to have those strategic conversations but even just, so that's like on a one-to-one basis, but even and then on an ad hoc basis, like, just do, check-ins like I'll get pings throughout the day from people who... that's part of like managing the relationship.

Just pings from our vendors about things that are great, that they love to see things that they want to see more of. But even doing something like while we're making updates to the vendor dashboard, getting their feedback. So I just sent out a survey to our three PDs asking for their input about and this was coming from our designer, but just input about, what are they seeing? What would they like to see? What serves them best? And ideally, we'll be able to incorporate that as we're working through our roadmap so that once it's launched, it's something that we know is going to work for them.

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Bob: Yeah. It's interesting because I've been using WooCommerce since it came out in 2011. So I'm not a developer, everybody that listens to this show knows that I'm not. So I rely on extensions heavily. And I've seen, especially recently that growth and I find it exciting because really I'm your typical user. And I think another really interesting thing about it, and maybe a lot of people... I think it's apparent to a lot of developers, but my other site, my bobwp.com that has all these tutorials on it, the most, I would say probably conversions actions I get are from extensions via the marketplace versus other third-party.

And I think there, like you said, there's that layer of trust, and you're building that, up even more through the reviews and having more options and giving the developers more tools in the backend. So, everything, it totally makes sense from an outsider, even looking in, as I've watched it grow over the years, or maybe not really grow, but continue over the years. But specifically the interests I see in a lot of developers out there and builders is I see them popping up left and right. How do you get on the marketplace?

I'm interested in this. And I think it's apparent that there is a different level of trust there, and it's not that their own efforts on their own sites doesn't bring that across.

Adepeju: Well, and trying to, and I definitely see myself as a role of facilitator because I'm just very much aware that there is, this whole community exists and people are doing very well selling on their sites. They're doing very well selling on other marketplaces. So that's why we introduced the opportunity for flexible model. Like if they want to come in and submit something as an exclusive, they can. If they want to submit something as a non-exclusive and just either test it or just see the Woo marketplace as an extension for, to get incremental customers and pair that with what they're doing already doing so well on their site.

Totally get it. And that's part of it too. It's like, it's not supposed to be an either or but as you alluded to, or as mentioned, there definitely. And we have vendors who say, like they see a lot of, they definitely see that incremental audience. But they also see just different types of benefits, like by aligning more closely with eCommerce in the official marketplace, just getting access to our support teams and maybe more access to our product teams, getting more of the inside scoop.

We've heard things like it's allowed vendors to be better at building product and customer support themselves. So, it's helping them become, keep their businesses like up to speed, up to par. And that's what we're here for. We're all about promoting the community and taking everything and everyone up to the next level. So, we're happy to do that.

And you're not lying about growth. I will tell you just when we think about what we did in 2020, we doubled the number of our third-party developers. We've increased them of our product by over 50%, sorry, not 15%. So the growth is there, but we definitely, as part of bringing on launching new products, we're bringing on new vendors, we're cognizant of, like you said Bob, that trust and making sure the products are of good quality. They are able to support any kind of new customers they bring on, they're going to maintain the product and continue to update them. Because again, we have that trust with our merchants. So we have to extend that to the marketplace and to the third-party developers who sell there.

Anna: I've found one of your pieces on LinkedIn.

Adepeju: Which one?

Anna: You were writing an article not a very long time ago. And I quote, you said, "Great content that finds an audience will always be valuable and monetizable." This was roughly a year ago. I wanted to ask you, what was your advice for publishers? That's what I understand that this piece was about, if there's anything that has changed since?

Adepeju: No. And I think that will always be the case, that quote will always be spot on. Because it's just based on my experience, just again, from working at the New York Times and working at great publishers, but also thinking about like actual product as content. It's like when you're talking about media, if you're creating great editorial, if you're creating authentic editorial, if you have certain audiences in mind in a meaningful way it will always bring audiences.

And audiences, the way we... people make money, publishers make money, audiences equal dollars, whether it's through ads or whether it's through like membership subscriptions, audiences are King and what's key to audiences is creating that great content. I appreciate coming from the media world and coming from brands like New York Times, Huffington Post, TechCrunch, where that was the focus. And it yielded great results and great revenue. And I think from an eCommerce standpoint, you could think about it as like the content is most certainly for merchant, like its product.

You create great product, you open it up and with things like, or channels like social media, people who are super vocal, digital transformation, everyone has the tools to talk about how much they love your product, how much they hate your product. They prefer it. And so I think, it's almost kind of like, at the end of the day, it's a self policing environment. I feel like just the internal world, like whether you're talking about media, whether they're talking about like an actual product that you're selling, it's a self policing environment. That's why I love digital. I've all things digital.

Because it's almost like yeah, there may be things you can tweak and try to gain, but at the end of the day, those who went out best, or who stand out, or who don't have to do a lot of work marketing themselves are the ones who create good content or good product. So it's always going to be the case for me. And that's why I'm always going to be attracted to the companies who are creating great product or working with people who are creating great products.

Bob: In the same train of thought, I'm looking at these developers. They are basically merchants because a lot of them are selling their own products. They're probably coming to you because they need help marketing those products. And that's why they're coming to the marketplace. So with your experience so far, has helping them with content or thinking through that process of content, like you just talked about, has that played into it or not basically?

Adepeju: Well, like marketing aside, when you try to talk about, when I had the conversations like once they submit a product, once they submit they ask, before they start developing. Like, will this product whether it be accepted on the review? I asked them why? Like, "Why are you creating this product? What need does it feel? Okay. Yeah, it's a cool feature, but what's the rationale behind?" There has to be a reason that you built it. And the reasons that I'm looking for is that, you've seen some type of demand from merchants. You've seen a lot of feedback from maybe a similar product that didn't have this feature or didn't do a feature particularly well.

And you decided, "Okay, I'm going to build something that is better. And I'm going to build something that integrates really well with a current Woo native extension, whether it's like WooCommerce subscriptions or something like that." Those are the kinds of questions I asked, because I want to see that you've identified a need, and it's not just something that you just saw, you were like, "Let me just copy it and let me try to throw it into the marketplace." And so there's still a lot of back and forth that goes with some of these submissions that I get.

And then I would love to say that all good products, just organically find an audience, but sometimes it's not the case. I will say that there is a benefit when you're aligning closely with WooCommerce and joining marketplace and you have that URL structure that includes eCommerce there is that organic SEO benefit if someone's doing a search, they'll tend to bump it up. So, any kind of organic push benefits that you can get, go for it. And I think there's still a lot that we could do, obviously we have highlight features and WooCommerce marketplace.

Again, we're doing a lot with personalization and trying to ensure that the right kind of products are surface up. And again, it's not the most popular products. We do have our newsletters every month. So for that push element, we have our what's new with Woo and our staff picks. And so, there are those levers, and again, if you're doing a non-exclusive you're selling on your site, you could do that. You can promote it on social. But it all does start with building a product that is built well. But also building a product that serves a need.

And those are two things that I will have people, I will say it over and over and over again that people should be mindful of because that's going to take your product a long, long way. And obviously we have guides and everything to help with that. But two things to keep in mind if you want your product to organically send out. But if you also want our team to help push it.

Anna: Did you ever make an exception?

Adepeju: An exception for like introducing? Can I say this? I don't know... We know what's cool is that at least on the technical side, we have automated systems in place, automated checks in place. So, like the first thing you do when you submit a product, it goes through our linter. And so it'll kind of like check and see that it's technically up to spec. So, that's done because I don't want to hear from our lead developer like something's off. So, those are pretty great guidelines. But I think if like, obviously when I'm thinking about products, like I think about there is... I'm definitely in the spirit of providing optionality.

I like the idea of having just like a few, if it's like the same people always ask like, will you allow two of the same types of products extensions in the marketplace? And I will say, yes, because again, that's in the spirit of growing the marketplace, providing optionality. Vendors are competing based on the type of features they provide and the support they give. So if you're introducing a similar product, but it's a current vendor and you have a history of providing great support, you are constantly on top of like updates and you have ideas for new features, almost like we give your submission and approval.

And so, it's a case by case basis. And then also like certain, one man shops who are just trying to start out. They have a good reputation or they have like great potential on.org or on their site. Yeah. If the quickest way to get you in is to bring in a product that maybe we have something similar, but you have plans for others. Yeah. Well, you win.

Anna: Is story telling important?

Adepeju: Storytelling important in what way?

Anna: In the context of, if you have to compete with another maybe extension developer that serves the same audience as you do is a very well-built product. What other options do you have then? Maybe you have a similar history as well as just as well.

Adepeju: Well, I think, I'll start by like what everyone has access to, which is their product page. Whenever they launch a product in the marketplace, they're in charge of providing the content, the basic content. It goes to editorial view, but the basic content for their product page, which is essentially their sales page. So what I am... and I used to be very hands off in terms of this letting, in the spirit of WordPress, it's like just letting them develop for themselves and create the content themselves and position that, how they think best.

But definitely over the last few months, I've been instructing developers more and more to pay attention to the content, but also like what makes their product differentiated. Like take time, they inherently of course, like understand what makes their product different, but that doesn't always come through on the product page. And that is the number one marketing tool that they have, like the basic monitoring tool that they have. And I think a lot of people, maybe they just jumped straight. Like we have the product page and we have the technical documentation.

Some people treat it as one in the same when it's not. They do not just go dive straight into what is technically great about the product, the features, talk about the why? Talk about what makes it uniquely different based on what you've seen? Talk about why you built it? Then go into the features and then directly to the technical documentation. I think, passing along those best practices to vendors as I'm onboarding them will be really helpful because that's where I see some of vendors and the extension they support like fall a little flat when I know they're great products, but it doesn't really come through on the product page.

And aside from that, there are definitely talks internally about how we can best support products and vendors that have a point of view in a particular vertical. So let's say SEO or they developed, I don't know, like buy now, pay later product. Like in a particular field or vertical like whether it's marketing, whether checkout they're just experts in it. And they have point of view to say, and being able to... We're trying to figure out internally how we can on a regular basis or create a process where we can surface up some content and their expertise, and tie back to their products.

So we're just trying to figure that out. But I think there's definitely something there a lot of our vendors have built expertise over the years and it's in our best interest. Add to just the content that WooCommerce is creating in a very rich way but also promote the vendor and promote their products because it works.

Bob: Cool. I want to just wrap it up, but I want to do it in a sense of back in, I think it was late last year, I actually asked you to give some tips to builders as emerging, going into this new year and you've interspersed already a ton of those in here. And I think some of them are probably the top ones. So if we look back at everything you said, what is your one final piece of advice to these extension builders to get into/the marketplace as a whole, the WooCommerce marketplace in this new year?

Adepeju: Yeah, I will expand on the three points that I said was, for those who don't know I said, focus on like, maybe try your hand at building a theme because we are definitely looking for more themes to grow our themes inventory in the marketplace. So if that is something that is of interest, you have the capability to do it, definitely would be interested to hear from you or see those submissions.

The second one was, focus on building great product. Great extensions, great things. And that is for sure true. And then adding based on discussion, adding to that would make sure you have the rationale, the why you're building it. Because that's going to play a big part in whether your submission gets approved or not.

And then I think the third thing I said too was you don't have to do it alone. If you are... you don't have to be a jack of all trades, necessarily outsource where you need to. So if you're good on the developer side, but you need some support on, like some help on the support side, feel free to outsource that where you can so that you can continue to build your business. And I would say those definitely still ring true. Try thing, have great product rationale and outsource where you need to, so you can get up and running quickly.

Bob: Excellent. Where's the wisdom? So to appreciation that, well I told everyone this would be a hit this show, and this is just gone seamlessly and yeah, I'm eternally grateful for both of you jumping on here today. Where can people connect with you online if they want to reach out? Whether follow you somewhere or even through Slack?

Adepeju: Yeah. You can find me, my full name in the WooCommerce community Slack channel. I'm there ping me. You can also find me on LinkedIn. Yeah, those are probably the two best places to reach out. I've had people reach out via the community Slack, talking about submission and some like really great which turned out to be really great products in the marketplace. So, if you have questions, definitely ping me there. I'm happy to answer or talk to you or anything.

Bob: Cool. Well, I'm going to just quickly thank our three sponsors. One more quick time.

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Lastly, Anna, you saved the day. Mendel's out of a job, you're hired. I'm sorry Mendel, you're going to have to hear publicly. You know, but seriously, you jumped in and run with this and it was amazing. I just want to thank you so much for doing this. This was really fun.

Anna: Thank you for having me. It's an honor. I've been listening to your show for a very long time now, so it's great to be here and I'm really happy to have met your both.

Bob: Cool. Excellent. Well yeah, again, thank you Adepeju just for being here. This has been great.

Adepeju: Thank you Bob. This is so much fun. I don't do a podcast or discussions as often as I would like, I need to do them more. I love being able to have these types of discussions and then answer questions or just get into conversation. So this is great. And I thank you for these good questions, Bob, same to you.

Bob: It has been wonderful. So yeah. Well, everyone, thank you for joining in and I'm going to close this out with words of wisdom from our guests. So just remember to Do the Woo dance coming soon until the next time.

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