Streamlining Your WooCommerce Site Build

Do the Woo - A Podcast for WooCommerce Builders
Do the Woo - A Podcast for WooCommerce Builders
Streamlining Your WooCommerce Site Build
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When your guest replies that they Do the Woo in so many ways, you know are are in for a great ride.

Adam Warner, Field Marketing Senior Manager at GoDaddy Pro, has been a key figured in the WordPress space over the last few years. And yes, he does Do the Woo. From building a WooCommerce store for his kids to helping builders discover their passions and talents for the Woo ecosystem, Adam’s own experiences play into a well-rounded conversation that so many listeners will be able to relate to.

A Chat with Adam

Noelle and I talk with Adam about:

  • Adam’s first touch point with WooCommerce
  • His experience with building a Woo shop for his 7 and 9 year old sons
  • How GoDaddy’s WooCommerce hosting streamlines the store building experience
  • The similarities and differences when building his kids site vs. building client sites
  • What experiences he brings to his kids through the project and how his own life history plays into it
  • What he has heard from customers who have moved online in the past 16 months voluntarily or by force
  • When did the interest in builders become more apparent in streamlining their work flows with site builders that hosts offer
  • His question to Noelle about her biggest pain point in building Woo sites for clients
  • What perception do customers have when they see the number of plugins that are offered through GoDaddy’s Woo hosting

Connect with Adam

Thanks to Our Pod Friends

Mindsize


Mindsize has helped individual stores handle hundreds of millions of dollars worth of orders. Their Site Performance Audit with ongoing monitoring and iterative performance improvements are key to help you optimize your next client project. Visit mindsize.com to learn more. 

FooSales


If you have a client who is looking for a point of sales solution, consider recommending FooSales. FooSales is the first native WooCommerce point of sale to support in-person payments using Square Reader. To learn more, check them out at foosales.com.

Bob: Hey everyone, BobWP here, episode 140 of Do the Woo. I am joined by my cohost, Noelle. We have recently gone from two episodes together every four weeks to one episode. So I've missed Noelle, but it's great to have you back. So good to see you here, Noelle.

Noelle: Hey, Bob, good to be back. Been missing you too, man.

Bob: Yeah, we were getting in the flow there and then I disrupt everything. So that's my life, is disrupting other people's lives. We're excited because Noelle is a builder herself and myself, just having known our guest, for as long as I have, it's always fun to talk with Adam. Adam Warner, how are you doing?

Adam: I'm doing really well, Bob. Thanks for having me and nice to meet you Noelle. And Bob, it has been a number of years, hasn't it?

Bob: Yeah, it has. It's one of those things that somebody the other day was asking me about something like, when was the first time we met and it was, I mean, in person, it was like 2015, I'm thinking, "Wow, that's already six years ago." So yeah, it's crazy in this WordPress world.

Adam: Time flies when you're WooCommercing and WordPressing.

Bob: No kidding. Well, we always start with the famous, or I should say infamous question, which kind of lets you tell us what you're doing, but specifically, how do you do the Woo?

Adam: Well, I do the Woo in a bunch of different ways. So as you've mentioned, I'm with GoDaddy Pro. GoDaddy Pro is an official sub-brand of GoDaddy, focused on website designers and developers. And in that world of WooCommerce is a huge piece, as we all know, in addition to WordPress. So I am on the brand build team. I run the global field marketing events and community team here at GoDaddy pro. So it's my job and my team's job, to be deeply involved in all things WordPress project, WordCamp sponsorships, and other events that are adjacent to WordPress and WooCommerce.

And having been a WordPress user myself since 2005, I've done a lot of things with WordPress through the years. And I'm just so happy that this is my day job.

Bob: Right. Cool. And I know that you have a long history in WordPress, buy what was your first touchpoint to WooCommerce? Where did that come along in the whole WordPress journey?

Adam: Oh boy. I really have to think about this, and I remember there was mention of, it was an Adii, was his name?

Bob: Yeah.

Adam: Yeah. And there was some terminology about included rockstar, and it was some branding or initiative where I think I first learned of WooCommerce; previous to my WooCommerce days, I was using the OsCommerce open-source platform, to spin up my first E-commerce store. And that was a dog and pet supply store, called Derby Dogma, because my dog's name was Derby, and I was very into Zen type things. I don't even remember exactly how I learned of Woo, but I think what attracted me to it was the creation of E-commerce themes, where you saw product listings and you didn't have to do a lot of manual template editing, and those sorts of things.

And my former plug-in and company business partner, was in South Africa, and I believe Woo and the team there were in South Africa at the time. So there was a kind of a connection there too. And that's where it all began.

Noelle: Yes. So you mentioned using GoDaddy hosting to spin up your Woo site. Is that correct?

Adam: Almost. It was a site for my two sons. We have seven and nine year old sons. And so GoDaddy does offer WooCommerce hosting, and it comes with a lot of premium extensions included in that hosting package for the normal hosting price, which through the years, through WordPress and WooCommerce, through my experiences, and I'm sure that both of you can relate, it's when you have an idea for an E-commerce store or website for that matter, you have your go-to plugins or your go-to plugins for the solutions that you need.

With WooCommerce, there is such a wide variety of plugins out there for different features and payment solutions and all kinds of stuff. Twofold, what attracted me to our WooCommerce hosting was one, I'm dead set on eating our own dog food and putting things to the test from a web designer and developer perspective, which I am at my core.

And also because we have this partnership with WooCommerce and Automattic, and our acquisition of SkyVerge, which if people don't know, is a premium provider of WooCommerce extensions. So that hosting comes packaged with basically any solution I would have needed. And as you go through the onboarding process, you choose what kind of site you're you're anticipating having, are you going to have subscriptions? Do you need a payment processor, are you using PayPal? All different things.

And so it was kind of this all in one package, and the idea behind it was, I'm sure, like all of us here, we have a lot of side hustles, and I think that that's probably one of the core personality traits of many people in this space, is that we were constantly creating and wanting to try different things, an entrepreneurial spirit in creating businesses.

So all that to say, I wanted to teach my sons financial responsibility. I wanted to show them what dad does for a living and get them interested in building websites, but more importantly, showing them the value of creating something, earning revenue from it, and then using those profits responsibly. So what was it? What were the kids going to sell?

Well, that's when you start thinking of an E-commerce store, that's one of the first things. Is it something that you're going to create? Are you going to do some kind of a drop shipping business? Do you have some kind of product supplier? And so what I decided on, was they're constantly drawing pictures as many kids do. And my nine-year-old specifically, gets very into whatever character he is into at that time. And hyper focuses on it for many, many weeks and months.

So I challenged them to come up with a bunch of pictures for me and scan those in, remove the background, and then using Printful, to put those designs on T-shirts currently. So I spun up a site called realkidshirts.com. The interest level from my children is a bit of a roller coaster. I have to constantly remind them, "Hey, we need new stuff."

And then of course, the question of advertising and getting the word out for that E-commerce store, that's where the real challenge comes in. So I've been lucky enough to have a really supportive network of friends and colleagues on Twitter and LinkedIn, that when I mentioned this project and what I was doing with it, we got quite a few orders just from people simply supporting the project, which was great.

It was really awesome to see their eyes light up when, "Hey, we got an order," and "You've made $4.50." And so, yeah, it's been really good so far. It's a long-term play. I want to continue this throughout the years, but like any business, we're going to have to invest in it. We're going to have to invest in content in terms of product descriptions, and of course blogging to whatever our target audience is. I'd like to expand that to put those products also on an Etsy store.

The Printful integration has been really pretty slick, I have to say. It's been very convenient. There's a few little things here and there, but as a very busy person with work and kids, it's been fairly straightforward to spin up this E-commerce store and get it going and manage it.

Bob: What I'm curious about is, we're perceiving this whole process as kids and just curious, or was it actually like working with clients and kind of hearing the same thing from them?

Adam: Yeah, I'd say a little bit of both Bob. So I tend to over-explain things, my children know this, they say, "Dad, just get to the point," but explaining how I was building it, was a bit over their head. They did catch on to the basic concept, "We're going to create this thing. We're going to make it available on the internet. And then we're going to tell people about it. And if they like your designs, they can buy a shirt and it costs us so much to make it, and ship it. And then you get this little slice of a profit on top of that."

And I would say like comparatively speaking, like as if working with a client, it was very related to getting the content, "Get those drawings to me." And then they would have a tendency to just whip something up that was very messy, and I knew they could do better. Now I sound like I'm really a hard nose about this, but understanding that the quality of the drawing, having lines and things, made it easier for me to put it on a T-shirt, instead of having to do a lot of editing and things. I was just trying to streamline that. So I'd say getting the content was probably the closest of working with a real client.

Noelle: I also think Adam, that it's an interesting exercise to having to drill down the concept of E-commerce, which can be really complex to really, "It's cool," and simplifying and explaining it in such language that your sons can understand it. I think it's an interesting exercise to do, makes me want to do it, because then you really look at what is it, at its core. I mean, I haven't worked with kids, but I have had clients who are like say retired, and being online and behind the computer is not their thing at all. So I've had to do it in a different way, but similarly.

Adam: Yeah, and I think that comes from a few different places actually. Now, if I really think about it, one, when I grew up in a small town in Michigan, in a blue collar family, and my dad was very work ethic focused. In fact, he made me, I guess, or encouraged me strongly, to get my first job at 12 years old with a paper route. And his purpose in retrospect was to teach me responsibility, and work ethic.

However, working since I was 12 with paper route and dish-washing on a blueberry farm, and all of these jobs that a typical teenager would have, well, one, was pushing Willie's Wee-Nee Wagon, selling hotdogs and potato chips; the only job I've been fired from incidentally, for giving away free food to my friends.

I left for college when I was 18 with $300 in my pocket, after all those years of working. So I wasn't taught financial responsibility. I was taught a very strong work ethic, but not financial responsibility. So, in 1990, I go to college and credit card lenders give an 18 year old kid a credit card. And at the time, it's just like free money, I didn't understand. I just thought, "Oh, well, I'll promise to pay it someday in the future." And then you ruin your credit in your 20s and it's a long slog back to some sense of financial stability.

And of course, there is always the ebb and flow of work and life, and all of those things. So it's not where the idea came from, but it's where the purpose of this project came from is to try and teach them the value of money. Because now these days they each have a tablet, they play a game called Minecraft, which a lot of people know and Roblox, and there are a ton of digital upsells in these games. So, “Can you buy me this texture pack for a 1.99?” “Sure. I can do that because it's only a $1.99,” but if you do that multiple times per day, every day of the week for months on end, it adds up.

And so it was a bit self-serving I guess, because I wanted for them to understand financial responsibility. So what better way to do that than to take your future into your own hands and create something and put it out there? And then also I want them to have the same kind of entrepreneurial spirit that I've had. And I want them to know that they don't have to depend on a company or a boss their whole lives, although I'm sure they will at some point, but I want them to understand that they have the power to define their own reality, their own existence and their own financial future.

Noelle: Oh, that's some awesome things to teach a kid. I mean, I'm not a parent yet. Well, probably in the upcoming years, but yeah, I feel the same way. Teaching entrepreneurial skills and at least showing like, “Look, you've got these options. You don't just have working for a boss as an option. Here's what you can also do.” Expanding their horizon at such a young age sounds really wonderful.

Adam: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. And forgive me Bob, but I've said this before probably multiple times in the community, but when I finally learned that was in 2001. I was working, I had gone to school, got my degree in advertising design, but then I went straight to work on the factory floor billing office furniture in west Michigan. That was the big industry then.

And I had been doing this job for probably two or three years, and I was growing increasingly dissatisfied with the thought of being in the same metal building for the next 30 years, with 20 minute lunches and two, 15 minute breaks a day and not being able to, well, I guess I should say always having a financial cap or a salary cap, right?

And then 9/11 happened and that affected the office furniture industry really badly. So we went through these three rounds of layoffs and I volunteered for the third one because I was going through a divorce at the time and I knew I needed to change, but I needed an outside force to force it. So I volunteered to be laid off. And so I had no wife, no job, and I kind of had to reinvent myself.

And at the time I was building HTML sites by hand and as a hobby, but what that did is that forced me to then become self-reliant or more self-reliant. Looking back I had grown up and been kind of, I wouldn't say coddled, I worked, but I had always had someone to fall back on, but it was at that time where it was time to, “Okay, this is it. There's no backup. No one's going to bail you out. So do it.”

And I want to instill that same philosophy in my kids at a younger age, so they didn't really have to go through the ups and downs. And also, so they won't come to me and expect me to bail them out when they're older and they are adults, you know? I mean, let's be honest.

Bob: Well, this is a perfect segue because as I listened to you talk about starting this site for your kids and what you've gone through and what you learned, there's a fine line between that and what a lot of people are doing now, starting sites for the first time, and maybe leaving businesses and doing their own business and learning that, “Yeah. You're starting to get money in, but you got to be responsible for it.”

There's investments to make, all this stuff, which is really interesting because we always look back at our childhood and think, sometimes we feel like we're going through a second or third or fourth childhood. I don't know which one I'm on right now, but it happens.

So looking at all the things you do at GoDaddy, I mean, you have WooCommerce hosting, you have the hub, as you talk with builders and stuff, are those same anxieties in them that really kind of are in you as a parent, working with your kids and them dealing with all this emotional things that are happening around them by, like I said, maybe leaving a business and starting an online store.

What are some of the things you're hearing from that sector that is moving to this, forced, I want to say over the last year and a half, especially where they're thinking, “This is maybe what I need to do,” and they come to you and you have these options. What's the feedback you're hearing from people?

Adam: Yeah, I mean, that's a really nice segue because as we've all seen, the pivot to ecommerce has been a critical option for many millions of people, as they simply try to survive and provide for their families. Given the pandemic and businesses closing, we've seen a huge influx of people reinventing themselves, I think, and putting their passions first instead of just simply a paycheck, but putting their passions first because they don't have any other option or any other good options.

So what we've seen along with a lot of other digital providers I'm sure, is this huge influx of interest in ecommerce and creating your own future from a web designer developer perspective, there's kind of two tracks here. The providers, the ones who build sites for people have gotten extremely busy as even businesses who have survived, they needed to pivot to ecommerce to keep up, especially restaurants, right?

Curbside, pickup, and delivery and the inclusion of those features on their sites, which may traditionally have been a brochure type site with a PDF menu. Just enhancing existing businesses through the use of the plethora of ecommerce tools available, including of course, WooCommerce. And then you have this other side of the audience, which are these people who are, for lack of a better term, in a desperate situation. They need to survive. They need some money coming in.

So they have turned to ecommerce and what we've done with GoDaddy all up the entire companies, we have these ecommerce solutions which include everything that you would need for a really reasonable price. So if you look at, in terms of Shopify, Shopify you're in for 29 a month or something like that, and I think our WooCommerce hosting starts at $16 a month or something like that, but we're right on par with those other providers as well.

And then GoDaddy has been very specific about leaning into ecommerce across all of our teams. So you'll see like the acquisition of SkyVerge, which I mentioned, so we can make sure that we're providing the tools and the solutions that people need. And then the acquisition of Poynt, which is a GoDaddy brand for WooCommerce. It's a payment provider which has the same terms as many other payment providers.

So we'll see that there will continue to be these packaged solutions which also provide the level of customization that a web designer or developer might need as they're building for clients, but also for a do-it-yourselfer to just jump on the platform and start adding products. And there's integration with Etsy and social selling and all kinds of cool stuff happening.

Just as a whole, ecommerce has been around for a long time, right? And then the pandemic pushed it front and center in front of many people, I think, that would have otherwise been aware that they could sell their own things online or their services, but now there's a definite need and people are actively seeking out solutions where they can earn their own living instead of being dependent on something that may be fragile.

Bob: Now, have you seen, with developers and builders, it used to be, “Hey, you know, as a developer builder, I don't need to get on this platform with all this stuff because I'm going to do it all and I'm going to figure it all up because I'm smart enough and good enough, and I can do it,” type of thing, but now it's like, “I need to have these tools because I can still do what I need to do, but I don't have to go and be hunting all this down. I don't have to be asking my customer to buy this and that.” Has that primarily this shift that you're seeing in builders, because obviously they're looking at that more seriously now, was that a result of this year and a half or have you seen that coming before this?

Adam: I think in many ways it was coming before the pandemic, but I think obviously this pandemic pushed builders to seek out packaged solutions more. And because of demand being so high, it really comes down to saving time in their day building sites and working with clients. We all know the more efficiently you can do things, the more clients you can have, the more recurring revenue that you could potentially have in terms of care plans and such, like GoDaddy Pro, the platform provides, right?

So managing all of those sites and clients all in one place with a solution that comes with everything that you may need or that the average client may need, I think it's really, it's all about these web designers and developers saving time in their day to get the job done, to deliver for their clients. Of all the reasons I listed before of using our WooCommerce, using our own product, making sure that if there's an experience that's less than stellar, that that gets surfaced immediately.

The fact that everything that I was there, and I spun up this store in 12 minutes. And that included applying a theme, the Rich Tabor and team from CoBlocks and ThemeBeans, they came on to Go Daddy a few years ago and they are the ones that built that onboarding experience, where you're choosing a theme along the way powered by CoBlocks.

And now that we get into full site editing, you're going to be able to customize the look and layout of your ecommerce stores and just the WordPress install by itself with the addition of full site editing coming into WordPress Core. Imagine a space where you're spinning up a site and your client maybe has given you some designs and some specs and some layouts for some different pages and through the use of Gutenberg Patterns or The Pattern Library, it's going to be easier than ever for a web designer and developer to meet the needs of what their client wants in terms of layout and stuff.

So I see a really bright future for ecommerce and as more integrations happen too. So imagine your store is powered by WooCommerce, but you can basically sell anywhere. I mean, you can do a lot of that these days too, but I think it's only going to get easier and easier.

Bob: Now I'm going to turn the table here because this is something we talked about a little bit before, is you have the opportunity, Adam, to talk to somebody that's actually built sites. And I'm sure it's not like you don't ever do this but we did have a chat with Noelle a little bit before. You just learnt her background. Do you have something you'd like to ask her that you would like to know from a builder perspective?

Adam: Yes, absolutely. So what Bob is referencing is we were doing introductions and I've learned that Noelle has been building ecommerce sites and WooCommerce sites specifically for eight plus years. And so Noelle, I think my first question that comes to mind for you is probably what is your biggest pain point in working with an ecommerce client or starting to build an ecommerce site from the ground up and are there any processes that you've put in place to help streamline the time it takes for you to do those things?

Noelle: Yeah, definitely. The two pain points I'd like to bring up is content. I mean, I think any web developer will probably tell you acquiring content from a client is a challenge. I have developed processes as in almost certain rules that I go by is that I do a very thorough prep with them very early on, and I tell them very clearly about what's necessary.

I can provide templates for them or guidance or points that, for example, when they write product descriptions, prepping the product information is the biggest thing. Like I helped a client recently configure all of this because I had a setup. It's a big fabric store. And I have this Ajax powered filter and people must be able to say, "Okay, I want fabric to make cushions, and I wanted them purple and I wanted with botanicals," and it will just appear right there.

But then I now need to chat with the client and say like, "Listen, whether this is going to function beautifully or not is highly dependent on how you enter the data." So I provide these templates that these guys are empowered to provide all of this information in bulk, neatly in a spreadsheet ready to import. But I always tell them if they will tell me, "Oh, no problem, we'll have it whipped up in a couple of weeks," I'll tell them, "Listen, many clients have been telling me this for the past years. Things will come up and it is harder than you think. And that's okay."

Especially when it's small businesses that don't have say, a dedicated content team or marketing team, especially when it's just one person doing it or a small team doing it. And one thing that I also in my process pay special attention to is compatibilities. So if I need to plan extensive functionality and I'm using plugins as the base to make it work and then extend it with custom PHP or to connect certain things, I will also have, very early on have conversations with the plugin developers to ensure things are going to work well together, should it not be clear in the documentation.

But not only with them, but also with the host because nowadays certain hosts disallow certain plugins or certain bugs might not work as well on certain platforms. And I can imagine with the WooCommerce hosting that you provide, people don't have to worry about that because obviously these plugins from SkyVerge, for example, are going to be working beautifully on your platform.

So people don't have to worry about that, but those are definitely two pain points that I will continue on improving on as time goes by.

Adam: Yeah. I think the main takeaway that I have from that is communication, communication, communication.

Noelle: And prep, prep, prep, prep, prep. Good preparation.

Adam: And setting expectations.

Noelle: Yes. Overestimate. Rather give yourself too much time than too little. I'm not talking for example, the clients giving themselves time for content, and I'm really about making a very detailed outline of how everything is going to work and having people review it and start thinking of things really early. I'm really finding that basically the more time I spent prepping, the less time I spent developing.

It just takes out so many anomalies. It takes up so much extra time spent if you can discover certain compatibility issues early, for example, to just run a few simple tests. Use a default theme and just install these couple of plugins and do a very basic setup of what you want to do and catch the bugs early. Definitely.

Adam: And it's not just building the site and adding the inventory and making sure that the payment process works and emails are delivered. It's the setting expectations with clients on how to update inventory and what not to do, and maybe calling out the hurdles that could happen if they, for instance, if they format their spreadsheet in a way that's different from what they've been instructed to do.

Noelle: Yes. Yeah. Exactly. This is exactly something that I have done. I've literally said, "If you're going to spell color like this, and your other colleague is going to spell a color attribute like that, then you will now have two.

Adam: Yeah. Just from my point of view from working with clients in the past, I've always avoided ecommerce with clients because of the potential chaos it can cause to my life. But it sounds like putting those processes in place and being very adamant with your communication and expectations, it sounds like that's not an issue. Or do you find that just varies from ecommerce project to ecommerce project depending on the client?

Noelle: Yeah. The processes definitely help. And also, yes, one can experience something as chaos, but also days also a huge diversity and I love that. Yes, ecommerce brings unique issues, unique things to come across, unique anomalies but that also makes me love what I do. I'd rather, I was actually explaining this to my fiance the other day to explain how my brain works.

I said, "I rather am to the point of almost bashing my head on my table, trying to work out an issue, and then of course, eventually solving it and having the right of, "Yeah, I solve the puzzle." I love that. Then a day where, "Oh, not much happened." I just can't. So I love the diversity, I love the complexity, I love that no site is the same. I love that. You can't always predict it. So it works very well with my personality, thankfully.

Adam: Oh, that's awesome.

Bob: Kind of a last question here I want to ask you, running these, you have these great packages and you have these options for plugins in there, and Noelle had talked about wanting to make sure things aren't going to be incompatible with each other, and you've got that comfort level there because you've probably put them in there and you probably tested them, but do you ever have people that do come back to you and, I get this all the time.

I get people saying, "Oh, don't use as many plugins," and my site has always had an average of 50 plugins and people just freak out and I say, "Well, I take the time, I test them, I make sure they're working well." Do they ever come to you and say, "Oh, it's great, all these plugins, but everybody's always telling me on these blog posts I read, that I shouldn't install many plugins and I have such choices." How do you handle like that or how do you approach that?

Adam: Yeah. Well, first of all, we don't advocate adding all of these extensions. Far from it.

Bob: Yeah, right.

Adam: Right. How it works is two ways, right? So the onboarding, and then if you're just doing it in the admin. Through the onboarding, you're asked a series of questions, basically, what kind of store is this? Do you need a curbside pickup? Do you need subscriptions? Do you need memberships, et cetera, et cetera. So your choices there determine which one of those extensions get installed during the spin-up of that WordPress and WooCommerce install.

But then when you're in the admin, you have access to all of these extensions, but you have to physically take that action to click install and use it. And what Noelle touched on, the beauty of having these available is of course, giving the user or the web designer developer the choice to have those available in that unified space.

So they don't have to go buy from here or buy from there, a premium extension. You're saving a ton of money on yearly software renewals incidentally. But also again, what Noelle touched on was, because the SkyVerge team is a part of GoDaddy now, there's an entire team dedicated to making sure that everything works smoothly together. So that's a big benefit.

And then as bugs are reported or issues are surfaced internally, as an entire company, we have a method for surfacing these sorts of things and defining what team they should go to, where it automatically creates a ticket within our system and things are followed up on pretty quickly. So pretty proud that the way things work here are the way things work, because we're all very focused on making sure that our customers are having the best experience possible.

Bob: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense, and it is nice for the developer to see and be rest assured, "Hey, I can grab this plugin because I need it and I don't have to test it." It's here, it's obviously going to work and not going to conflict unless they start adding a bunch themselves, but it's in the sweet of things there. And this whole conversation kind of makes me nervous in a sense, even though I have WooCommerce on my site.

I've been building my own sites since 2008. I think that was the first WordPress. I'm saying WordPress. And for the very first time, I've hired an agency to rebrand Do The Woo and redesign the entire site. And it's quite an investment. I'm just hoping I don't become the client from hell.

I'm going to pull back, I'm going to give them the stuff they need. I'm not going to make them beg for stuff because we are on a timeline too. I'm listening to this all from a different perspective right now, and I don't know, I might have to have this show at the end with the people at the agency and have a podcast, "Just how was it to work with Bob?" and say, "Hey, come on and tell the truth."

Adam: Noelle and I will host and you'll just have to listen.

Noelle: Yeah.

Well, Adam, thanks so much for being here with us at Do The Woo. So now when people want to go find out more about you and what you do or want to connect with you, where can they find you online?

Adam: Oh, thanks Noelle. It's been a real pleasure. I'm very active, well, the ebb and flow of activity on Twitter @WP Modder. That's WP, M-O-D-D-E-R. That was the first name I chose when I started modifying WordPress, so it stuck. I'm also on LinkedIn as Adam W. Warner. I would love to connect with anyone through Twitter or LinkedIn, or you can go to realkidshirts.com and check out the drawings of our children.

Bob: Cool. Alrighty. Well, just like to thank our pod friends. You've heard from both of them during the show, but mindsize.com and fusale.com. I appreciate their support. So that's it for this week. A great show. And just one last time, I want to thank you, Adam, for joining us.

Adam: Oh, thanks again, Bob. Really appreciate it. Noelle, it was a real pleasure meeting you.

Noelle: Same here. Have a beautiful day.

Adam: Thanks you two. Take care.